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Community => Game art & music => Topic started by: ffomega on December 07, 2016, 01:02:11 AM

Title: [TILESET] Awaiting Approval from Christopho
Post by: ffomega on December 07, 2016, 01:02:11 AM
This topic is not only to showcase the brand new updated look to the Absolute Dungeon Tileset, but I am also directly calling upon Christopho for a review on the data file.

It's finished Chris!  I have given every pattern a name (except of course for all map tags and the characters that appear on the tileset).  There was no need to name letters, numbers, and map tags, because they will never be used in-game.  But the remaining tile patterns now have names.  Please review the data file and tell me if this was exactly what you were looking for :)

It took me weeks to name the tile patterns, as I basically had to start from scratch.  I figured it would be way much easier to rename them using a blank data file than to re-position every pattern before renaming.

Download the package here (http://solarus_resource.site88.net/tutorial/download/Absolute%20Dungeons.zip).
Here is one of the tilesets' images:

(http://solarus_resource.site88.net/tutorial/download/Absolute%20Dungeon%2001.tiles.png)

Here is one of the Entity sheets:
(http://solarus_resource.site88.net/tutorial/download/Absolute%20Dungeon%2001.entities.png)

Please take as much time as you need for the review.  I'm in no hurry :3
Title: Re: [TILESET] Awaiting Approval from Christopho
Post by: MetalZelda on December 07, 2016, 01:09:42 AM
Whenever I feel bad or depressed I come here and see the hard work FFOmega put into Solarus, and man, this is amazing
Title: Re: [TILESET] Awaiting Approval from Christopho
Post by: ffomega on December 07, 2016, 01:23:06 AM
Thanks a lot MetalZelda <3 it makes me feel good knowing my work isn't falling on blind eyes :3
Title: Re: [TILESET] Awaiting Approval from Christopho
Post by: Diarandor on December 07, 2016, 07:31:23 AM
I agree too, this work is amazing!
I've realized just now that the image is even bigger than it seems (I hadn't seen the horizontal scrolling bar :o).
Title: Re: [TILESET] Awaiting Approval from Christopho
Post by: Christopho on December 07, 2016, 09:30:39 AM
This is incredible work ffomega :D
I will try to make some maps with it.
Title: Re: [TILESET] Awaiting Approval from Christopho
Post by: oclero on December 07, 2016, 05:58:52 PM
This. Is. Awesome.
Title: Re: [TILESET] Awaiting Approval from Christopho
Post by: ffomega on December 07, 2016, 08:27:49 PM
Quote from: Diarandor on December 07, 2016, 07:31:23 AM
I agree too, this work is amazing!
I've realized just now that the image is even bigger than it seems (I hadn't seen the horizontal scrolling bar :o).

I actually optimized the tileset just a little bit.  The dimensions of the image are smaller, and I removed the entities portion of the tileset (because the original ADT was being used as a testing page for the entities).  Even with all the map tags, the image is still smaller by way of dimensions than the previous version.
Title: Re: [TILESET] Awaiting Approval from Christopho
Post by: llamazing on December 08, 2016, 01:59:56 AM
I know I was the one who suggested the change to the concave corner pieces (e.g. wall_low.corner_reverse.1-1), but I've come around full circle (see my original post here (http://forum.solarus-games.org/index.php/topic,693.msg3569.html#msg3569)).

The reasons to keep it the way you had it is for compatibility with existing quests, as well as convenience since creating a simple corner with the piece now requires 5 tiles when it used to only need 3.

I also have a different suggestion on how the outcropping wall I used as an example in my original post can be created (and it would only take 4 tiles instead of the 5 it takes now). The good news is that it should only be a minor change to the tileset and would still preserve your existing layout.

See the first attached image for the changes I am now suggesting. The second image shows how a simple corner and an outcropping wall could be constructed with my proposed tile changes.
(//)
Title: Re: [TILESET] Awaiting Approval from Christopho
Post by: Christopho on January 01, 2017, 09:09:18 PM
Metallizer and I have just started to use the absolute dungeon tileset for the Mercuris' Chest project.
It is really impressive and a pleasure to use it!

1. We found a bug so far with the low-layer concave wall corners that have a red or white shading:
(http://zmc.zelda-solarus.com/images/crater_temple_corner_bug.png)
As you can see the shading is reversed.

2. We also a found a few minor issue: wrong ground type for the following patterns:
- wall_border.corner.1-4
- wall_border.corner.1-5
- wall_border.corner.1-6

3. Question: why is the ground of parallax lava set as empty? For example if I want to put a ground hole on parallax lava tiles, is it possible? (Are there invisible tile patterns for each ground?)

4. One more question: why is the color of water not the same in all PNG images? And the semi-transparent water tile pattern is has no tranparency in some PNGs.
Title: Re: [TILESET] Awaiting Approval from Christopho
Post by: Christopho on January 01, 2017, 09:15:00 PM
5. Since there are some custom wall patterns, do you think it could be nice to add the ones I did for a mine here?
(https://raw.githubusercontent.com/solarus-games/zelda-mercuris-chest/dev/data/tilesets/mine.tiles.png)
Title: Re: [TILESET] Awaiting Approval from Christopho
Post by: Christopho on January 01, 2017, 09:28:18 PM
6. I totally agree with llamazing's last suggestion!
PS: okay, apparently it is already done. Nice!
Title: Re: [TILESET] Awaiting Approval from Christopho
Post by: ffomega on January 02, 2017, 07:22:51 AM
Thanks very much Chris for pointing out the tileset's bugs.  The main reason why the link to the ADT package was removed was so that I could fix these problems and a couple others.

Issue 1 - I admit that I was a bit hasty when creating this effect and did not test it prior to release.  This has been fixed.

Issue 2 - The ground type was an oversight on my part, as I misclicked on the ground type when I was making the patterns and had forgotten to double-check them to ensure they were all traversable.  This was fixed.

Issue 3 - You asked about the parallax lava tile having an empty ground type.  This was something I thought about when creating the patterns.  I ran into a bug some time ago with patterns that were of parallaxing animation, and found that if these tiles were placed on the same layer as the hero they would produce graphical glitches when he interacted with (walked on top of) them, especially if animated.  I learned that, in order to work around this problem, all parallax animated tiles had to be placed on their own layer to avoid interaction with the Hero causing glitches.  When doing so I made them 'empty' thinking that since they had to be on their own layer, the Hero would be less likely to walk on them.  I have replaced the ground type for all parallaxing lava tiles from "empty" to "hole".

Issue 4 - The reason the water is not the same color in all PNGs is because I used a palette swap from Hyrule Magic.  In some of the tilesets, the water was greenish in color.  I also chose a color of water for some of the tilesets that I felt looked close to the color which best suited the color scheme.  For instance, when I chose the regular blue color for tilesets 15 (the blacksmith's house) and 16 (the santuary), the colors felt too 'bright' for the water, so I chose a darker almost purple color because, in my eyes, the color seemed to suit it better.  The green color for tileset 4 (Eastern Palace) by default had a greenish color to the water so I stuck with it.  As for some of the images not having transparencies, this has been corrected.

Issue 5 - This will take a little time.  These tiles might change the dimensions of the image but I see no problem adding them in.  The "wood" walls will need to take on the color of the furniture if that's okay with you.  I might even go so far as to make a second variant within the tileset to allow mappers the option of choosing the brown wooden color, or to have the color change when the tileset changes.

Issue 6 - Yeah I had that fixed the moment he brought it to my attention :)

i included the tilesets, the data files, the entities images, the data files for each of the entities (Evil Tiles are considered enemies so their data files are in the enemies folder).
Title: Re: [TILESET] Awaiting Approval from Christopho
Post by: Christopho on January 02, 2017, 10:26:53 AM
Thanks ffomega, you are amazing!
Title: Re: [TILESET] Awaiting Approval from Christopho
Post by: MetalZelda on January 02, 2017, 07:50:47 PM
Quote from: Christopho on January 01, 2017, 09:09:18 PM
Metallizer and I have just started to use the absolute dungeon tileset for the Mercuris' Chest project.
It is really impressive and a pleasure to use it!

1. We found a bug so far with the low-layer concave wall corners that have a red or white shading:
(http://zmc.zelda-solarus.com/images/crater_temple_corner_bug.png)
As you can see the shading is reversed.

2. We also a found a few minor issue: wrong ground type for the following patterns:
- wall_border.corner.1-4
- wall_border.corner.1-5
- wall_border.corner.1-6

3. Question: why is the ground of parallax lava set as empty? For example if I want to put a ground hole on parallax lava tiles, is it possible? (Are there invisible tile patterns for each ground?)

4. One more question: why is the color of water not the same in all PNG images? And the semi-transparent water tile pattern is has no tranparency in some PNGs.

Fak there's a lot of potential with these tileset ...
Title: Re: [TILESET] Awaiting Approval from Christopho
Post by: ffomega on January 03, 2017, 01:41:31 AM
Chris, the tilesets have all been updated and now include your mine tileset.  All the wooden pieces have been recolored to match most of the existing tilesets' furniture.  For those tilesets whose furniture was too close to the color of the walls, I chose to give them a universal color using the palette from Jabu-jabu's teeth (since it contains a lot of browns).

Please be sure to re-download the package.

Dungeon Tilesets Package (http://solarus_resource.site88.net/tutorial/download/Absolute%20Dungeons.zip)

(http://solarus_resource.site88.net/tutorial/download/Absolute%20Dungeon%2001.tiles.png)
Title: Re: [TILESET] Awaiting Approval from Christopho
Post by: Christopho on January 03, 2017, 08:54:42 AM
Wow this is awesome! Thanks for your reactivity!
Title: Re: [TILESET] Awaiting Approval from Christopho
Post by: ffomega on January 03, 2017, 09:31:03 AM
It's no problem at all :) I enjoy doing this stuff <3
Title: Re: [TILESET] Awaiting Approval from Christopho
Post by: MetalZelda on January 03, 2017, 08:19:36 PM
This pillar isn't mapped

(http://i.imgur.com/WAu0BrQ.png)
Title: Re: [TILESET] Awaiting Approval from Christopho
Post by: ffomega on January 03, 2017, 10:28:04 PM
Quote from: MetalZelda on January 03, 2017, 08:19:36 PM
This pillar isn't mapped

(http://i.imgur.com/WAu0BrQ.png)

Thank you for pointing it out MetalZelda.  The pillar has been added :)  If you or anyone else find an unmapped pattern, please don't hesitate to tell me :)
Title: Re: [TILESET] Awaiting Approval from Christopho
Post by: Christopho on January 16, 2017, 02:10:48 PM
I think I found an issue: to make a cave, I am using your tileset #7, but some wall borders don't have the correct palette. More exactly, tile patterns like wall_border.1-3 should be slightly red and wall_low_border.1-3 should be green.
Title: Re: [TILESET] Awaiting Approval from Christopho
Post by: ffomega on January 16, 2017, 03:46:49 PM
I'll change ADT 7 for you.  However, as for the rest of the tilesets, the palette choices were a choice I made based on the default palette choices present within Hyrule Magic (most notably the gold castle palette, which made the wall borders for the caves bright blue, which did not look right with the color scheme at all.

That being said, if you have any suggestions for certain tilesets, or would like for me to show you a sample of each of the remaining 15 variants, let me know and I'll change them to whatever color scheme you'd like :)
Title: Re: [TILESET] Awaiting Approval from Christopho
Post by: Christopho on January 16, 2017, 05:42:43 PM
I don't know how Hyrule Magic palettes work, but right now it is impossible to reproduce maps from ALTTP caves because of these borders.
Title: Re: [TILESET] Awaiting Approval from Christopho
Post by: Christopho on January 16, 2017, 06:35:57 PM
Another detail: the default layer of door tops (like door_top.1-1 and friends) should be one layer above the one of the corresponding walls. Same for door_cache.1-3 which is on the contrary one layer too high.
Maybe there are other tile patterns whose default layer is incorrect, I don't know. I am only starting to work with it :P
I also noticed that your convention is to have default layers of 0 and -1 for both levels of floors. In my games so far I use 1 and 0. Your choice is probably better now that negative layers exist, because with your convention, 0 will be the most used one. So even if it does not really change anything, I will do like that is new maps :)
Title: Re: [TILESET] Awaiting Approval from Christopho
Post by: ffomega on January 16, 2017, 08:09:30 PM
Well as far as default layers are concerned, I took into consideration that in programming, a lot of variables in my experience have been zero-based.  I got used to the idea of starting everything with zero because when it came to layers in zelda, 0 meant "zero height".  All my maps use layers -2 through 2, -2 being used for parallax background tile patterns (such as horizons and summit tiles), whereas layer 2 was for overlays (such as the forest canopy and fog).

You are right about the door cache patterns, almost all of them were set to layer 2 by default.  I intended for them to be layer 1 by default but forgot to double check.  The door tops are on layer 1 by default, but can be adjusted to layer 0 depending on whether or not you need one for the lower layer.  I have updated the data files for the tileset package.

I have included a preview image of a cave room created with the tilesets.  The borders' palettes have been changed to resemble the other borders, with the exception of the brown and ice cave tileset palette, as they had colors for which their default palette was designed.  If these look how you like, I'll repackage them with the Absolute Dungeon Tileset package, but I want to make certain they do so no one has to download constant updates to the tileset if they are in the process of making maps from them :)

(http://solarus_resource.site88.net/tutorial/download/corrections.png)

As always thank you for proofing my work.  it helps to have someone with better eyesight than my own to find and point out any errors there may be :)
Title: Re: [TILESET] Awaiting Approval from Christopho
Post by: Christopho on January 16, 2017, 08:30:25 PM
I am completely convinced with your explanations about layers.
I also agree with the new palettes for borders.
Thank you so much for the quality of your work, not only everything you do is very impressive, but you also react quickly to take remarks and suggestions into consideration :)
Title: Re: [TILESET] Awaiting Approval from Christopho
Post by: ffomega on January 16, 2017, 09:18:11 PM
Thanks for the support Chris.  I am just happy being a part of something :)

I updated the tileset package to include the new palettes for the wall borders
Title: Re: [TILESET] Awaiting Approval from Christopho
Post by: Christopho on January 16, 2017, 10:18:21 PM
Another detail about caves: in ALTTP the ceiling of caves (around the rooms) are the uniform color 40,32,32. Similarly, for houses it is 56,40,40. I did not find such tile patterns in the tileset. ceiling.1 is the regular ceiling patterns used by most tilesets, and ceiling.2 is not exactly this particular color.
Title: Re: [TILESET] Awaiting Approval from Christopho
Post by: ffomega on January 17, 2017, 02:08:10 AM
ceiling.2 was supposed to be the ceiling you'd use for house interiors and caves.  I've recolored the tiles for each of these.

Something of note: I am using paint shop pro for my image editor, and it seems more often than not that when I save images colors may get distorted.  I try to correct them as much as I can but I may not catch them all if there are any discrepancies.
Title: Re: [TILESET] Awaiting Approval from Christopho
Post by: Christopho on January 18, 2017, 04:19:00 PM
Update: see my next message with pictures for more clarity.
Here are more details I found in my today's work session:
- The default layer of floors like floor.1-2 (all darker variants of floors) should be -1 and not 0. Same thing for door.1.low_support.1-2.
- Missing door caches on the low layer: door_cache_low.1 and friends should exist for walls that have a different style as wall_low.1-1, like cave walls (wall_low.1-2). For the wall style wall_low.1-1 (which is the most usual), I guess you want us to use bridge_tile.1-1? This should be possible, but currently there is a slight shift of one pixel, the tiles don't exactly match.
- Missing transparency in the torch_big.bottom pattern (at least in tileset #7).
I can give pictures if you want, if something is not clear :P
- door_cache.2-1 is misaligned compared to door_cache.2-3.
Title: Re: [TILESET] Awaiting Approval from Christopho
Post by: ffomega on January 18, 2017, 07:07:01 PM
sure :) picture references are always nice to help me better see the discrepencies :)
Title: Re: [TILESET] Awaiting Approval from Christopho
Post by: Christopho on January 19, 2017, 11:01:31 AM
Ok so here are the questions/remarks with pictures :) You can forget my previous message above.

- The default layer of floors like floor.1-2 (all darker variants of floors) should be -1 and not 0.
More exactly, in this picture, the 4 columns with red arrows should have a default layer of 0 and the other 4 columns should have a default layer of -1.
(http://www.solarus-games.org/christopho/ffomega/floor_layer_bug.png)

- The default layer of door.1.low_support.1-2 should be -1:
(http://www.solarus-games.org/christopho/ffomega/door_support.png)

- I am trying to understand what door caches to use with each style of wall.
It is quite obvious for all walls that are on layer 0, like the first one of this picture:
(http://www.solarus-games.org/christopho/ffomega/door_caches.png)
But we also need some for doors that we put on layer -1. I did not find any pattern called door_cache_low.1-*, and I think they should exist.
For example, the second case of this picture is the usual style of wall on the low layer. There are no door caches for it, but only bridge tiles that I don't think can be used as door tiles.
And for the third case I found nothing at all.

- What are these supposed to be? They don't exist as tile patterns in the tileset, they are only in the PNG file. If they are useful to something, why don't they exist for other styles of walls?
(http://www.solarus-games.org/christopho/ffomega/cave_bridge_tiles.png)

- Missing transparency in the torch_big.bottom pattern (at least in tileset #7).
(http://www.solarus-games.org/christopho/ffomega/torch.png)
3 pixels on each side are white instead of transparent.

- When I tried to cover a house wall with a door cache, I noticed that one of the two 8x8 squares of the cache is wrong (door_cache.2-1):
(http://www.solarus-games.org/christopho/ffomega/door_cache_house.png)
Title: Re: [TILESET] Awaiting Approval from Christopho
Post by: ffomega on January 19, 2017, 08:36:15 PM
Okay I'm on it Chris :)

The default layers are easy to fix for the patterns.  I removed the stray white pixels from the floor lamps.  As for the stray wall patterns, forgive me for that.  I had originally intended to do something with them, but when I finished the patterns of the tileset they became similar to how you find extra screws when you take something apart and put it back together again.  These have been removed to avoid confusion :)

I added lower door caches to the tileset.  They are located to the left of the door tops for layer 0.  Originally I did plan on having you use the bridge tiles for the lower layer door cache, but I agree it might be confusing for some who might want that pattern.  I apologize for this.

I fixed pattern type 1 of the door cache so it looks right now.

The locks for the entities sheets have been fixed, the data files are all updated, and the entities' data files have all been organized into folders now.

Small Update: I put the link to the package in the first post of this thread for easy access to everyone.
Title: Re: [TILESET] Awaiting Approval from Christopho
Post by: Christopho on January 20, 2017, 09:36:27 AM
Thanks a lot ffomega!
There is no need to apologize, it is perfectly normal to have some bugs in such a complex project. On the contrary, thanks for the quick fixes :)
Maybe you should also put the link to the package on your website, because I did not find it there.
Title: Re: [TILESET] Awaiting Approval from Christopho
Post by: Christopho on January 20, 2017, 10:55:48 AM
- There is another issue now with door caches (at least house ones):
(http://www.solarus-games.org/christopho/ffomega/door_cache_flipped.png)
The door cache is wrongly flipped horizontally.

- table.5 should be a repeatable pattern.

- wall_pillar.4-9 is one pixel off.

- The bed from ALTTP houses is missing.

- It would be very useful to provide 8x8 tiles of a lot of colors just like you did in the outside tileset, including semi-transparent ones. This is really a great idea of the outside tileset, and inside tilesets want it too :P
Title: Re: [TILESET] Awaiting Approval from Christopho
Post by: Christopho on January 20, 2017, 11:01:24 AM
By the way, the dungeon package contains a lot of outside sprites too, so why don't you make a single package with all your tilesets and sprites (inside + outside)?
PS: then we will use the whole thing in the Zelda resource pack if that's okay to you!
Title: Re: [TILESET] Awaiting Approval from Christopho
Post by: ffomega on January 20, 2017, 04:18:29 PM
So you want me to combine all my tilesets into one gigantic tileset? While I've never given that much thought, I am unsure I, personally, can due to the fact that it takes between 3-6 full seconds to load maps using Full Hyrule (the dimensions of the image make the maps harder to load, it causes a 1 second lag whenever the Hero uses his sword for the first time, and a half-to-full second lag for the first time he interacts with a destructible object or grass (lifting, cutting, traversing.  Running Solarus on Windows XP might be an outdated idea, but at the same time I feel that if you can make it run fast on a low performance machine then it will run exceptional on a newer one.

As far as adding the 8 x 8 "pallete, that's no problem either.  I had actually considered doing this before with the tileset's initial palette.  But I see no reason why I can't place one in each tileset.  The bigger question remains then if you want me to create an indoor palette using all the colors from all rooms in Link to the Past, or if you want a larger one, containing both the palettes from the room map, as well as the two overworld maps?  Also I will place the ADT package link on the site.  I actually had forgotten to do so si9nce it';s been awhile since my last page update.
Title: Re: [TILESET] Awaiting Approval from Christopho
Post by: Christopho on January 20, 2017, 05:21:53 PM
No no, I don't mean to combine all tilesets into a gigantic one, but just to include the Hyrule outside tileset in your zip package. Mainly because the zip package already contains some outside sprites.

Regarding performance issues, all maps should start almost instantly, even with large tilesets, and even on Windows XP. If they don't, please report bugs on https://github.com/solarus-games/solarus/issues/new and I will fix them.

And about what colors to put in the 8x8 palette of the tileset, I think it should be the palette with colors from rooms, and it should not include colors from overworld maps.
Title: Re: [TILESET] Awaiting Approval from Christopho
Post by: ffomega on January 20, 2017, 07:08:56 PM
A report has been submitted.  While I was hoping to include a limit on Solarus' performance at runtime versus the dimensions of a tileset's image, I attempted to do so using my tileset by reducing the dimensions of the image (without altering the data file), and Solarus crashed at runtime.  Know that the dimensions of the Full Hyrule tileset are 1584 x 4096 as of the posting of this message, and the filesize (while I'm certain may not matter) is 1.6 MB (substantially smaller than the 3.5 MB it was when the tileset was first created back a year ago).

As for the dungeon package, I will get to work on correcting the rotation of the door cache tiles, and will begin compiling a palette for the tilesets.  This will take some time, but I'm certain it won't be an issue nonetheless.

(Update on the palettes) I was planning originally to make a palette for the entire underground/room map (all dungeons in one map from LttP), but when I checked the color count, it was well over 500.  Therefore the only solution I will be able to work out is creating a palette from each of the tilesets individually.  I use a conversion method that reduces an image to 256 colors, which I got lucky with the Hyrule and Dark World maps since each color palette for the world maps was within 256 colors.

As for combining all my tilesets into one package, while I misread the message, I have no problems adding the Full Hyrule tileset as well as the minimap tileset to the package, since the Full Hyrule entities are indeed included as well.