Hi guys, so i'm trying to keep this project on the down low a little but its a Remake of Zelda 2. I was going to Rom hack LTTP and got a ways in before I was pointed towards Solarus and working with RPG Maker for years and years, i'm used to editors like this for creating projects and hell, its nice not being bound to LTTP assets only. Aaaaany ways, rather then creating question after question thread I thought I would combine a vague update thread (for the sake of avoiding C&D) with a question thread on Solarus for those that can help me out. I'm not in this for personal glory either. I just want this project done so I can play it myself lol but if anyone wants to collaborate with me and get involved, shoot me a PM. I would like to release in 2019 if not late 2018 which considering the length of Zelda 2, I feel this is a realistic time frame. My personal project i'm working on is vastly bigger and 40% done and i've finished Zelda 2 a load of times, but i'd like to add some additional content yet try and keep it as accurate as possible. The challenge will be in translating a side scrolling game into a top down action adventure but I know what I want this to look like so that shouldn't be a problem. Anyways, suggestions and what not are much appreciated.
So, questions. Does anyone know roughly the overworld map size of LTTP if it were in Solarus? I just need a gauge for comparison. I'll be dividing Project Z2R into 4 Maps, 3 Continents and a Mountain Range. Western Hyrule, Death Mountain, Eastern Hyrule and Maze Island.
So basically if I wanted to make this map (Below) in LTTP or even 4 Swords graphics and elaborate on it, maybe add an extra 25% to the size of the map in border, just in case, What map size would I be looking at? Once I do this map i'm sure I can estimate the others fairly well. I just don't want to invest a bunch of time only to have to edit work possibly erasing some work i've done.
(https://i.imgur.com/qKqFhFk.png)
I'm watching all the tutorials but i'll still have a few questions here and there. Mapping I generally excel in and enjoy the most but there is no denying i'm new to Solarus.
If the overworld of LTTP was remade in solarus it would be the same as the original game. Im pretty sure that is 4096 pixels by 4096 pixels or 256 by 256 tiles.(16 by 16 tiles)
The full AoL map consists of 169x118 tiles (of course a lot of that is ocean). Although the map from AoL contains the full map for LoZ, so the scale is obviously much larger than LttP.
Quote from: wrightmat on December 26, 2017, 03:43:10 PM
The full AoL map consists of 169x118 tiles (of course a lot of that is ocean). Although the map from AoL contains the full map for LoZ, so the scale is obviously much larger than LttP.
There is one missing thing in the AOL map image, the labyrinth before the last palace
For the map size you have 2 solutions
Map the whole map into 1 single huge map (You are prone to lags if you put a lot of entities, rare in Solarus but it can still happen)
"Segment" the maps by linking maps each other
Start with the basic 320x240, then resize the map to your needs, it's fairly easy on Solarus
Thanks for the replies guys, it means a lot. I've been waiting for some feedback before I get the ball rolling (That and Christmas) After considering the variables I think i'll try the 256x256 of LTTP first and if that doesn't get laggy and feels fluid enough, I might just leave it, but I would be open to a bunch of different maps that aren't square shaped. For example, Walking into Kakariko Village, its fairly large to walk around in much like the desert area in the light world. In that regard, I may split Western Hyrule into 9ish parts. I guess we'll see. I'll have Western Hyrule in one map done for you guys to see in my next post. If it gets laggy, i'll split it into a few areas. I would prefer to theme each palace area also (and the palaces themselves) as opposed to just empty desert or something like that. When I do actually do the first dungeon, i'll likely link it to some side quest. Maybe even have a mini practice dungeon first before sending the player there. I'll need to make some Old Lady Impa sprites too.. She'll need to be a pretty big part of the game. I would like to have a whole lot of option content in the game. I'm thinking a lot of Minish Cap and Ocarina of Time while doing all this. I also want a lot of the NPCs to matter. I'll have fun with Bagu and Error, thats for sure :3
Anyways, i'll stop rambling. I'll have some stuff for you guys to judge and critique soon <3
---
Also, i'm thinking for post game content i'll make an extra continent. Maybe a world between worlds sort of continent with a set of small dungeons and a few towns based on other Nintendo titles. I think it would be fun. I remember back in the day when Link's Awakening dropped I loved all the cameos of stuff like Yoshi's Egg and the Yoshi Doll, Kirby as an Enemy, Chain Chomp as character (even though LTTP straight up has Chain Chomp enemies) and stuff like that. That of course will have to wait til this game is completed. Maybe even become a separate game of its own using Superstar Saga Assets or something. I dunno.
I may need help from some of the better spriters and coders down the line (with full credit of course) but I wouldn't expect anyone to volunteer til they see some substantial work put in first so i'll be working on that ^_^
Okay, i've drawn out on paper Rauru, Ruto, the first P Bag, Magic Upgrade, Health Upgrade areas, Parapa Passage, The First Palace, etc and drawn up Western Hyrule and divided it up into 9 parts so I don't face any lag issues. I'll be replacing EXP/P-Bags with Ruppees and Magic/Health Upgrades with Heart Pieces. I'll keep Link Dolls as collectables and shoe horn in some other cool little side quests. I want it to be similar to the original game, but better :3
I guess its time to do all the actual mapping now. I'll tackle it area by area and when this part is done i'll make sure the maps are connected and traversable, items and NPCs are all added before adding in enemies and bosses. This is pretty fun TBH I may have minor issues with sprites later if i'm being reasonable so I might need some input there but the next update will actually have pictures and maybe video so that should be up in a week or so. I'm also playing through Zelda 2 - Rev Edition on DudeGoBack as a refresher for the game so I have a fresh reference point in mind.
Back to tutorials
Okay, on paper i've mapped out the whole game. I can see the image in my head and now its down to mapping it in Solarus. I've done all the icons and game logos and gathered all the necessary resources (NPC charsets, music, etc)
I've divided up the maps into West Hyrule, East Hyrule, Death Mountain and Maze Island. Each 'screen' is 1024x1024 and there are 15 sections for West and East Hyrule. 6 for Death Mountain and Maze Island. I'll be tweaking things to work a little better with Zelda as a series and tie things up a bit better in general.
For those that don't know, the official story is:
Several years after the events of The Legend of Zelda, the now-sixteen-year-old Link notices a strange mark on the back of his left hand, exactly like the crest of Hyrule. He seeks out Impa, who responds by taking Link to the North Castle, where a door has been magically sealed for generations. Impa places the back of Link's left hand on the door, and it opens, revealing a sleeping maiden. Impa tells Link that the maiden is Zelda (not the Zelda from the first game), the princess of Hyrule from long ago, and the origin of the "Legend of Zelda". Zelda's brother had tried to force her into telling their recently deceased father's secrets concerning the last of three sacred golden triangle treasures of his kingdom, known collectively as the Triforce. Princess Zelda refused to reveal its location, and the prince's wizard friend, in anger, tried to strike her down with a spell. Zelda fell under a powerful sleeping spell, but the wizard was unable to control the wildly arcing magic and was killed by it. The prince, filled with remorse and unable to reverse the spell, had his sister placed in the castle tower, in the hope that she would one day be awakened. He decreed that princesses born to the royal family from that point on would be named Zelda, in remembrance of this tragedy.
Impa says that the mark on Link's hand means that he is the hero chosen to awaken Zelda. She gives Link a chest containing six crystals and ancient writings that only a great future king of Hyrule can read. Link finds that he can read the document, even though he has never seen the language before; it indicates that the crystals must be set into statues within six palaces scattered all over Hyrule. This will open the way to the Great Palace, which contains the Triforce of Courage. Only the power of the combined Triforces can awaken the enchanted Zelda. Taking the crystals, Link sets out to restore them to their palaces. Meanwhile, the followers of Ganon are seeking to kill Link, as sprinkling his blood on Ganon's ashes will bring Ganon back to life.
Ultimately, Link restores the crystals to the six palaces, defeating a strong guardian within each one to do so, and enters the Great Palace. After venturing deep inside, Link must battle a flying creature known as Thunderbird, followed by a shadowy doppelgänger of himself known as Dark Link. Link then claims the Triforce of Courage and returns to Zelda. The three triangles unite into the collective Triforce, and Link's wish awakens Zelda. The game ends as they (presumably) kiss under a falling curtain.
So I was thinking maybe omit the part about it being a different Zelda (because that's stupid) but I could add an intro to the game, maybe add the Prince (who looks like this - https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/zelda/images/9/90/Prince_of_Hyrule.png/revision/latest?cb=20090927233717 ) and Impa (who looks like this - https://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/zelda/images/b/b8/Sleeping_Zelda.png/revision/latest?cb=20091012015619 ) with appropriate dialogue regarding the mistake the Prince made, the tragedy that happened and the intent to name all future princesses 'Zelda'.
I could also alter the story that the 'Wizard friend' was actually Agahnim/Shadow of Ganon controlling the Prince for intel on the Triforce and instead of dying, he gets what he wants and rushes off to the Great Palace where he later transforms into Shadow Link and attacks you. Maybe I can make the Shadow of Ganon attempt to control Link the way he did the Prince but have Link resist forcing the Shadow into a mirror where he breaks free as Shadow Link. I feel that would link the game to Zelda 1 and LttP and the series in general. Seeing as Zelda 2 is the end of a potential timeline with no subsequent sequels, I could probably take a few liberties story-wise for the sake of clarity and continuity. Maybe I could mention that the blood of the Hero can be spread over Ganon's ashes to resurrect him too. Alternatively I could have the Prince at his fathers grave (King's Tomb) and have him do the Aghanim reveal there and just have Impa in the beginning explaining the back story and what Link should be doing as opposed to just being plonked in front of Zelda randomly.
I'll cut out most of the spells and sword techniques and replace them with interchangeable items and stuff. I'll be removing the regular jump (obviously) and maybe instead replace it with a Roc's Feather item later so there are still pitfalls. Maybe replace the Jump Spell with Hookshot instead. Rather then the Fireball Spell, i'll probably just have the Bow. Maybe even get the Bow earlier and later instead of the Fireball Spell, get the Fire Arrows. Instead of the Reflect Spell I can just have the Mirror Shield. I can keep the Hammer but use it AND Bombs for large boulders, small barriers and walls. Rather then the Shield Spell I can have the red and blue tunics later in the game. Rather then sword techniques I can add the blade beam, spinning technique, extra swords, extra shields, etc I might keep the Fairy Spell and make it an item instead and have it work similar to the Magic Cape. I'd like to have medallions like A Link to the Past but i'd want them to be different and named after the Goddesses themselves.
I dunno, as it is currently i'm mapping the game for now but I have a lot of ideas for mechanics and to make things work in a top down perspective rather then the old side scrolling style. Any help would be appreciated. I'm not much of a sprite artist. I guess I could do that sort of thing if I had to but i'd rather the game have polish. This project could be a big one for Solarus when completed :)
Personal request: Why don't you make a new and original Zelda game instead? I, and surely many people, would prefer to play something fresh and full of surprises instead of the same games again and again. It could be a short game and not so ambitious, that would be ok. Besides, if you start with something so huge you may never finish the project.
Quote from: Diarandor on February 02, 2018, 08:34:22 AM
Personal request: Why don't you make a new and original Zelda game instead? I, and surely many people, would prefer to play something fresh and full of surprises instead of the same games again and again. It could be a short game and not so ambitious, that would be ok. Besides, if you start with something so huge you may never finish the project.
This is actually not that ambitious a project IMHO. Zelda 2 IS a short game. Zelda 1 is too. Certainly not a long games by any means. I am also making other projects that are 100% original in other programs that are MUCH bigger and roughly 65-70% completed but this for me is a project for learning to use Solarus and using it to make something that desperately needs a remake. I've already mapped it all out on paper so I have roughly 62 world map screens and maybe 50-60 regular sized screens for dungeons and towns. That to me is not so bad, plus i'm passionate about this as it was a game from my youth I played a lot and lets face it, its probably the most hated Zelda game bar Wand of Gamelon and the other CDi Games lol It needs a top down facelift. I know exactly what i'm going to do and I have the vision clear in my head. I mapped out the first 2 palaces on paper and am pretty happy with how they turned out. Plus a buddy of mine on Romhacking.net has already released a hacked version of Zelda 2 that I played through on my Youtube channel which is what gave me the inspiration to do this. This project started as a Link to the Past hack until I got shown Solarus. This is happening for sure. I've got most of the NPCs and Boss Sprite charsets ready to go and sure some need some edits and i'll need to make some from scratch but Solarus cuts out most of what would have been a hurdle in hacking.
I've got the passion. Even if its just one map every other day, it'll get done and I won't release a demo til its complete to avoid getting slapped bit the long dick of Nintendo via DMCA XD
Ok, but make sure that you finish it someday. We can't wait to play new Solarus games! ;D
PS: If you want the new version not to be so hated, my recommendation is to allow saving when Link dies, so that you don't lose the progress (level, items, etc). If I remember correctly, in the original game you couldn't. You could allow choosing 2 modes: "classic mode" (hard) and "easy mode" (the latter one would allow saving progress when Link dies, which is perfect for casual gamers, or bad gamers like me ::)).
Quote from: Diarandor on February 02, 2018, 01:37:56 PM
Ok, but make sure that you finish it someday. We can't wait to play new Solarus games! ;D
PS: If you want the new version not to be so hated, my recommendation is to allow saving when Link dies, so that you don't lose the progress (level, items, etc). If I remember correctly, in the original game you couldn't. You could allow choosing 2 modes: "classic mode" (hard) and "easy mode" (the latter one would allow saving progress when Link dies, which is perfect for casual gamers, or bad gamers like me ::)).
Oh absolutely and I totally appreciate the caution from you man. I've seen so many projects slow to a crawl and eventually die and its why i'm just doing it. I'm something of a RMVXA/MV Veteran and i'm capable with Game Maker Studio. Solarus for the most part is very easy to pick up. I'm mainly only worried about unpolished mapping and Boss AI. And absolutely dude, i'll be making this project as similar to ALttP/MC as possible. I love the idea of a hard mode though. Maybe 3 lives before a special laughing Ganon screen. I'm toying with the idea of a True ending and some post game content too. I'm just trying to map as much as I can. I'm just still getting used to the center top down perspective.
Thanks for all your work also, i'm looking into it and i'll likely do Let's Plays of your projects at some point too just to give props. I was looking through a lot of you and MetalZelda's scripts the other night and you guys have some stellar work. A lot of things i've worried about you've already covered. I'm more used to Ruby3 coding and am new to C++ so learning a new engine with Solarus and how to work things will be a slow process but I won't give up on this. I'll probably play through other well known Solarus projects and give nods to them from NPCs as the NPCs in original AoL's NPCs were pretty one dimensional. I've been helping out Revility with his AoL - Rev Edition patch to make the original game better and it just keeps filling me with ideas and how to improve. I feel i'll be an active member of these forums this year if for nothing else but to beg for help on odd and obscure issues XD
Okay, i've gotten the hang of things a lot more and thought i'd show some progress (below) This is still unfinished. I'll be removing the tents and adding 2 more houses and much more detail. I might add the cloud overlay too but this is essentially the second town 'Ruto' in the top left corner of the map I shared earlier. I'll be tackling it segment by segment and adding a bit more direction in general. To access Parapa Cave i'll make it so you need to visit Ruto's Town Elder who will help you after you retrieve the Trophy which I might change to a statue or an idol or something. The first shop I think i'll put in Saria Town and I am toying with the idea of having the weather vanes as transport points once you get the Ocarina and maybe put the weather vanes every second or third town. Also instead of having an old lady who heals your magic and a woman in a dress heal your health, i'll make Bars heal your magic and Inns heal your health. As a throwback I might magic the old woman manage the Inn and the lady in a dress manage the bar. I dunno, it's coming together. I had a play around with XD/XD2, RotH and DX too and there's a lot of inspiration there. A lot i'd like to do similar yet different. All great games :)
(https://i.imgur.com/4qJyjmJ.jpg)
Also I might redo the Icon set, but i'm pretty happy with the Logo itself
(https://i.imgur.com/8ORrmYg.jpg)
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[EDIT]
(https://i.imgur.com/9mOKuwQ.jpg)
Okay, made a lot more progress on Ruto (Above) and only really need to do the NPCs now, but i'l leave that til i've completed the Western Continent. Graves have bones in them and holes to fall into, a bush has a hole you can fall into and all bushes are destructible. I actually redid a lot of the map to make it look a little more aesthetically pleasing. I dunno, i'm pretty happy with how it turned out. Looks better then it did on paper haha Error lives in the purple house ;)
(https://i.imgur.com/qT4bEt9.jpg)
I got all the basics done with the next map. It's the Desert Cave containing the Trophy item. I'll likely have it locked behind a door that the Ruto Elder gives you the key to so people can't break the quest line. I want to keep some open world but I don't want people to break the game. Either. Below this screen is Hyrule Castle and the next screen i'm doing will contain the first Palace. 3 more Maps and North Western Hyrule will be complete :3
Wow! This looks amazing. I thought you were coding it as a platformer, like the original game. But this remake seems completely different and awesome!
Agreed. I love the visual style of Ruto - I think it's perfect. Your attention to detail really brings it all together! In the second map, the bushes seem a little light - is that intentional? Also I'm not sure the tree on the bottom matches the style of the rest - maybe just adjust the colors a bit?
Quote from: Diarandor on February 06, 2018, 10:48:24 AM
Wow! This looks amazing. I thought you were coding it as a platformer, like the original game. But this remake seems completely different and awesome!
Thanks! Yeah no way. Thats what everyone hated about 2. I kinda have respect for 2 as it was pretty much where the sword techniques and magic began but I think it would have worked better as a similar game to ALttP as I feel thats where Nintendo perfected the formula. I tell you what though.. As I learn more about Solarus and how to use it, I find myself infinitely going back and redoing this XD So frustrating but necessary haha I'll probably use a few of your scripts TBH because i'm a bit clueless with the engine. I have loads of experience mapping though. Literally like.. a decade lol
Quote from: wrightmat on February 06, 2018, 03:01:14 PM
Agreed. I love the visual style of Ruto - I think it's perfect. Your attention to detail really brings it all together! In the second map, the bushes seem a little light - is that intentional? Also I'm not sure the tree on the bottom matches the style of the rest - maybe just adjust the colors a bit?
Thanks man. The second map is just basic atm. I still have a lot of details to add. As for the share of the bushes, do you mean the destructible ones? If so I only have 3 shades to work with unfortunately. If you're talking about that one bush in the center down the bottom, its supposed to look off as its a holy witha heart piece in it :D This is actually an odd section to map because the road is essentially the divider between straight up desert and lush forest lol I'll likely tear it apart and rebuild a heap of it. I'll def reduce the amount of cacti and add in some enemies. Seems like a perfect place to put some Lever enemies and a few Bits and Bots :3
I'll likely have an updated version of the second map and the rough version of the next in a few days ;D
[EDIT]
Well, the second map is mostly done. I just need to place enemies and tweak a few things
(https://i.imgur.com/SNMXXu5.jpg)
Alrighty, I finished segment 1 which is essentially the first 3 map screens of Western Hyrule.
These are the updated maps minus enemy placement and NPCs
Ruto:
(https://i.imgur.com/E1pDdLh.png)
Desert Cave:
(https://i.imgur.com/flcpMFU.png)
Parapa Palace:
(https://i.imgur.com/PXNkKQt.png)
And this is a comparison from the NES version compared to mine.
(https://i.imgur.com/pCG2Kgm.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/lT8V889.png)
There are some slight errors when put together I do plan to iron out later but its going well. This is like a fifth of the continent mapped and the next few maps will be super easy :3
I'll leave the next update til i've completed the next 3 maps as that will essentially mean North Western Hyrule is essentially complete and just needs populating bar minor maps of inside houses, caves, grottos and dungeons (which I have mapped out on paper)
Aaaand i'm done with the Northern Passage Map South of Ruto)
(https://i.imgur.com/qRmt6nN.png)
Next will be Hyrule Castle and Rauru Town. I might make Link have his own house on the outskirts of Rauru and maybe decorate it with old treasures from Zelda 1 (Blue Candle. Magic Wand, Step Ladder) on shelves and such using BS Zelda ripped sprites just to add some personality. I am planning to make Hyrule Castle an actual decent castle with a few screens rather then just 1 with sleeping Zelda. I'll make a dungeon, great hall, empty throne room, empty King and Prince's room, have Zelda sleeping in her room being watched over by Impa. I might have a few hidden secrets you can unlock when you've obtained certain items.
I'm thinking i'll making the towns home to the seven sages. I'll make Rauru the City of Light, Ruto the City of Water (Ironically), Saria the City of the Forest, Nabooru the City of Spirit, Darunia the City of Fire and Kasuto the City of Shadow which will actually be kinda funny as a bit of a Naruto-ish nod with the Hidden Forest of the Shadow. I can make it Impa's hometown and make it a city of ninjas. All of which can be nods towards Ocarina of Time's sages (which took their names from Zelda 2 town names anyways) Hyrule Castle will be the last town of the sages. I might make a descendant of the sages and put them in each town.
Timeline-wise i've got this to word with:
Skyward Sword->Minish Cap->Four Swords->Ocarina of Time->A Link to the Past->Oracle of Ages/Seasons->Link's Awakening->Ancient Stone Tablets->A Link Between Worlds->Triforce Heroes->The Legend of Zelda->Game&Watch->Adventure of Link (This project and the end of the timeline)
Since Skyward Sword and Minish Cap are essentially ancient history, I think i'm only vaguely mention their story. I'll give a proper nod to Link's Awakening, Link Between Worlds, Link to the Past and The Legend of Zelda. I'll have to mention Ocarina of Time as that is when the timeline splits. It does again after Triforce Heroes so I may mention that also but I feel its less important. I want this game to be rich with lore, side-quests, and I really want it to fit into the series with the same sort of polish AM2R brought to Metroid's continuum. Depth, Quality, Polish. These are all important to me. I gotta admit though, there will likely be some minor flaws in the mapping ad not everything fits together perfectly but i'll do as well as I can and hide what I can also ;)
When i'm done with Hyrule Castle and Rauru, that will be North West Hyrule complete. I'll likely work on Parapa palace, house and cave interiors and start adding NPCs and enemies :3
This looks great. The only advice I can give you is not to put those rocks in such a homogeneous way (a more irregular distribution would be more natural).
If you understand French, you should read this great mapping tutorial (mainly, the section "Mapping de la nature", where it explains a bit how to avoid the problem that I mentioned above):
http://www.lesforges.org/article/mapping?scroll_to=article
Quote from: Diarandor on February 10, 2018, 06:27:38 PM
This looks great. The only advice I can give you is not to put those rocks in such a homogeneous way (a more irregular distribution would be more natural).
If you understand French, you should read this great mapping tutorial (mainly, the section "Mapping de la nature", where it explains a bit how to avoid the problem that I mentioned above):
http://www.lesforges.org/article/mapping?scroll_to=article
Thanks! TBH i'm using them to hide the lack of corner tiles for the edges or mountain tops. A few of them are bugging me too so I might put something different there instead.
Its a no go on the french i'm afraid. I always wanted to learn but never got there. I have been mapping for over a decade though. These layers and tile sets are new to me though and i'm getting better though this last screen was the most difficult as I cannot for the life of me find the appropriate corner tiles so I end up having to wing it as best I can. (Full Hyrule Tileset btw)
I dug into the source code for all projects available on the main site to study the inner workings. I pilfered a few .dat and .lua files too as they save me a huge hassle with items and HUD. Its really tempting to hit up the developers if they mind my using a few sprites also though I have to make a few of my own and i'm nearly read to start doing that. I'll wait til after Hyrule Castle and Rauru though :3
I am still working on this. I'll update the rocks for the passage map and such after the next 2 maps are completed Diarandor because you're not wrong.
They do look oddly placed. Surely I can find a better way to hid corners. Anyways, here is progress on Hyrule Castle.
(https://i.imgur.com/eWvNf6d.png)
Turns out a castle requires many layers to look okay so this is my progress. I wanna do whirlpool portals if I can in key sports around the world you can unlock after entering them once if I can manage that. Might be a better alternative to ocarina warping. I need to clean up the top bit of the moat also as its too straight. Still a lot of work to go into this map, then Rauru Town and that will be North Western Hyrule completed :) Of course i'll need to set all the transporters and the interior maps but they'll be a snap compared to the world itself. Also I need to learn how to do spriting myself because i'd like to have Minish Cap/Four Swords Adventures style NPCs and enemies just to make things look a little nicer. If I can't figure it out, i'll settle on LTTP lol but i'll stille need to bring the old NES NPCs into that style which shouldn't be too hard. Getting there slowly. I might connect everything up, place all the enemies and NPCs and even though I wasn't gonna make a demo, I might make one for Solarus Staff just for the purposes of critique. I just don't want a public release til the project is done and it'll take me like.. 8 or 9 times as long as this project has been going at least to complete this.
Quote from: Shade Aurion on February 10, 2018, 10:41:35 PM
Thanks! TBH i'm using them to hide the lack of corner tiles for the edges or mountain tops. A few of them are bugging me too so I might put something different there instead.
Hey, this project is looking really good. I never played Zelda 2 for more than like 20 minutes, I just couldn't get into it. I'd honestly rather play a LTTP style remake, I think, and say that's close enough so this is great, haha.
If you want to send a png of the mountains that are missing tiles and point out what's missing, I could just make some corners for you, I don't think that'd take very long.
Thanks dude! And yeah a lot of people couldn't get into it sadly. Link to the Past was the sequel people wanted but it doesn't mean 2 couldn't be turned into what people wanted ^_^
As for the tiles, you should be able to see in the corners on the mountains how the corners don't really round off nicely. I'll worry about polishing it up but I am using the Full Hyrule tilesets.
Lastly, this project isn't on hiatus. Life just gets busy sometimes, and I want to make the next update a sizeable one. I'll likely complete the next 5 maps before I release the next update ;)
Quote from: Shade Aurion on March 08, 2018, 07:33:42 AM
As for the tiles, you should be able to see in the corners on the mountains how the corners don't really round off nicely.
So, to be honest, I can't really tell what doesn't round off nicely and what's the way Link to the Past's cliffs look. They've always confused me- looked great in that game but are really hard to use. So are you taking about the top edges of the cliffs, because it seems like that's where you've hidden corners with rocks? I tried taking out the rocks and it looked fine to me, there were a couple places that seemed slightly jaggy that I made some edits to fix, but I'm not sure if I can see what's bothering you.
Quote from: Shade Aurion on December 25, 2017, 08:54:27 AMSo, questions. Does anyone know roughly the overworld map size of LTTP if it were in Solarus? I just need a gauge for comparison. I'll be dividing Project Z2R into 4 Maps, 3 Continents and a Mountain Range. Western Hyrule, Death Mountain, Eastern Hyrule and Maze Island.
According to this old reddit thread (https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/xq9gd/apparently_the_entire_zelda_1_overworld_map_was/), the bottom left corner of Zelda 2's overworld map was meant to be a "zoomed out view" of Zelda 1's overworld.
(http://i.imgur.com/U2QHN.jpg)
A more direct comparison here (https://i.imgur.com/4n2lg.jpg).
If this is true, then to recreate Zelda 2's overworld using a "normal" overhead Zelda formula accurately to what Nintendo intended, you would want to built the entirity of Zelda 1's overworld as the bottom-left portion of your map, and then scale the other areas accordingly... padded out with all sorts of newly invented details and smaller zones.
Of course, in the end the results would bear little resemblance to what people remember from Zelda 2 and it would involve a ton of work building out all those new areas. Certainly would be cool, but I'm not sure you'd want to open up that can of worms workload-wise.
Anyway, keep up the good work!
I don't want to sound like a wet blanket but I too feel like the scale of the world of Zelda II should be much larger. Honestly it is one of my favorite NES games and has much more character than the first game. The 2d combat is reminiscent of what the combat would eventually be like in 3d (but with ducking ;) ). This epic illustration definitely shows what the calibre of a top-down Zelda II map should be like. Love that Ziggurat in the Zelda 1 portion of the map--the artist has really upped the flavor of Hyrule without really changing a thing. PS: Is that Termina in the bottom-middle?!
Just here to point out that this project is far from dead. I've just had health issues i'm nearly through, been moving house, etc.
@Max
It's the corners of walls mostly. It messes with my OCD tenancies pretty bad lol Like a puzzle with no corner pieces
@Bagu (best name)
So I doubt I could make a world map to scale using Zelda 1 as a base. I mean technically speaking Zelda 1 was fairly small but a part of that was because screens/maps were a set size. All squares with nothing larger. I mean i'll do my best of course but it'll certainly take some work to pad out the world a bit. There will certainly be many smaller zones and actually many of the dungeons will work well in this format TBH Still, i'll probably make a small portion of the backend of Doom Mountain's map match Zelda 1's or at least the one in BS Zelda Quest 3. Knowing that this game is essentially last in the worst case storyline but before BOTW? Either way i'll do my best to incorporate nods to various games in the series but try and limit them to that specific timeline.
@Jojo_f
Well i'm sure if it were Nintendo remaking it, it would be but basing this off the scale of BS Zelda Quest 3 and A Link to the Past I don't want to push things too far. It might look small in the images but it's vastly zoomed out. I'm basing it off the NES map and it's already 200-300% larger but it will be padded out as I go and there will be plenty of sub-maps to visit whether they're dungeons, caves, trap doors, grottos, or whatever ;) I'm aiming for something that controls similar to Minish Cap that still accurately contains everything from the original overworld and more. I have to take some liberties with dungeons but it's going well. I'm particularly proud of the first dungeon which forms a perfect square of maps with every panel used yet successfully transferred a 2d map to a top down environment effectively.
The bosses will be fun as I kinda know what to do with them with Mezura resembling a Ball and Chain Trooper from ALTTP, Jermafenser's heads flying off but continuing to attack like Blind's heads in ALTTP.. I might recreate something similar to Dark Souls 2's Chariot fight with Rebonak and Carock will be fun, likely with a few Wizrobes as adds. I know exactly what i'll do with Shadow Link and my idea is something even I want to play. I do kinda plan to take liberties with the narrative though. Change the Prince's Wizard friend to a shadow of Agahnim and instead of dying, just the person he was possessing is slain but the spirit flies off to the Great Palace. In the final room where you are to receive the triforce part, I will have a large round room with a large pillar in the center (Like a donut) and up against that pillar will be a large mirror intended to test heroes to look inside themselves. The twist will be that when Link does this, Agahnim will possess his reflection and becoming Shadow Link who will then crash through the mirror and with very aggressive AI begin attacking you and have things like the hookshot, fire rod, boomerang, etc. There will be obstacles and such to use as cover but I don't want it to be a gimmick fight. I want it to just be a straight up hard fought victory. I love the side scrolling game personally but it will certainly be a challenge putting that in a top down action adventure format. Bare with me for now ;)
---
Okay all that said, while I have no developmental update as i'm been in and out of hospital and am currently moving house but the mapping has all been laid out on paper for the whole overworld. Dungeons are half complete, most caves and grottos are done. I'm trying to take my time with towns and want them to just be on the overworld instead of a sub-map. I dunno, getting there. Tossing up whether to have NG+ content and add in a Ganon fight with a prelude to BOTW. What I really need to focus on is the sprite work because i'll absolutely need some custom work done for bosses and such. Either way, this project isn't dead. It was just on semi-hiatus and will be starting up again soon (A week or two)
I'm trying to play through each game again also so I can get a recent sense of the games themselves too:
Zelda 1 (BS Zelda - Quest 3) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FavNpXePO8M&list=PLVFlHPy0Pa9spTT_sfJctz89DcmwOfHjd
Zelda - Adventure of Link (Rev Edition) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9neVJy7ynIk&list=PLVFlHPy0Pa9szee5TqmcrcOs95kjkiFx6
Zelda - A Link To The Past (Redux) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=po45WVrRTO4&list=PLVFlHPy0Pa9tokXrkfRmghByjCmTqLI4U
Zelda - Ocarina of Time HD (Bumped up to nearly 4k) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1RsMz7Aoio&list=PLVFlHPy0Pa9toxW9RvD0hnNhuxApcas6i
Again, if anyone wants to help out with sprite work or coding or get in on this project let me know. If I con't reply in time I can be reached via twitter.
Either way when I get settling into this new house I throw everything up on a github so people can view it and help out if they want to ^_^
Hi Shade Aurion, I've just discovered your project and I really appreciate it, especially your intention of adding to the original plot of Zelda 2 the lore and some references from the rest of the series (in fact, the game's story is a bit strange, mostly for the fact that there are technically two Zeldas at the same time, but it seems to forget the one from the original Legend of Zelda). I have just one thing to say about the story: are you considering the possibility that Yuga (the sorcerer from ALBW) may be fused with Ganon at the time of AOL? In that case, what role would Agahnim's shadow play into the curse of Sleeping Zelda if there already is a sorcerer from Ganon's side and Agahnim himself was revealed to actually be Ganon's alter ego? Besides, is the project going well? What percentage has it reached? I'd also want to know if you're planning to make the game multilanguage, maybe by creating easy-to-use translation tools; I ask this because AM2R and some Solarus games like Mistery of Solarus and Return of the Hylian too got translated in other languages, and I'd like that also AZ2R would.
Okay. First off, not dead and nor is this project. I just work a lot. I'm not a paid gaming journalist, run TheMetalReview.com, post daily on our DudeGoBack Youtube and am working on 4 game dev projects including this one, that is to say i'll start working on this again.
I'm sorry there has been no updates and while I have worked on a bit more, there isn't enough to warrant showing more right now suffice to say there will be soon. At this moment though I would like to ask if anyone else experienced with Solaris would like to get involved so this project sees completion? I mean it will one way or another but it wouldn't hurt to have people more knowledgable than me working on this to implement features and mechanics i'm having trouble with. I have a pretty decent vision for most of the game though but of course i'm open to creative liberties and suggestions. Some things I really want to do but i'm happy to accept better ideas if they come along.
Til I have a few people helping me I will likely continue mapping. Though i'm experienced in RPGM, some C++ and Java and Ruby3, Solaris is still a learning curve for me and I only have limited time in the day that I can work on this, sometimes limited time in the week. But, i'll keep at it. I still don't want to release a teaser demo or anything like that and keep it on the downlow til its at least at v1.0 so that way it sees a full release in case Nintendo decide to wave that DMCA hammer lol
I'll check back here and there for replies and post a proper update soon. Til then I am contactable via my twitter @shade_aurion
Quote from: Els87 on October 18, 2018, 07:29:30 PM
Hi Shade Aurion, I've just discovered your project and I really appreciate it, especially your intention of adding to the original plot of Zelda 2 the lore and some references from the rest of the series (in fact, the game's story is a bit strange, mostly for the fact that there are technically two Zeldas at the same time, but it seems to forget the one from the original Legend of Zelda). I have just one thing to say about the story: are you considering the possibility that Yuga (the sorcerer from ALBW) may be fused with Ganon at the time of AOL? In that case, what role would Agahnim's shadow play into the curse of Sleeping Zelda if there already is a sorcerer from Ganon's side and Agahnim himself was revealed to actually be Ganon's alter ego? Besides, is the project going well? What percentage has it reached? I'd also want to know if you're planning to make the game multilanguage, maybe by creating easy-to-use translation tools; I ask this because AM2R and some Solarus games like Mistery of Solarus and Return of the Hylian too got translated in other languages, and I'd like that also AZ2R would.
Thanks! To answer your question, I would like to keep it as in line with the story as possible so i'd be open to Agahnim being Yuga instead. I was going to have Agahnim be Ganon's shadow and then that shadow pour itself into a sacred mirror in the great palace to form Shadow Link who would then smash through the mirror and very aggressively attack you using all your items against you. I could make Yuga actually be Shadow Ganon though which could explain why Shadow Ganon exists when Ganon is dead but due to the fuse still retains Ganon's form and that of Agahnim. I dunno.. I will cut the two Zeldas part of the story though as thats stupid, but i'll keep the prince and give Impa more of a role. Perhaps similar to how Sahasrala contacts you via stones in ALTTP. I also intend to make some post game content to link AoL with BotW somehow but if I can tie in more games in this paricular timeline I will, though i'd avoid tying in other games from the other split off timelines. Games before the split would be fine though.
Multi-language I would love to implement but I only speak english but am more then happy to work with others to make that a reality if people are able to translate for me :)
A few friends are nearing their completion of what I consider to be the ultimate hack of the original game over at RomHacking.net and I will draw a lot of inspiration from their project - https://www.romhacking.net/forum/index.php?topic=26001.0
Hi Shade Aurion, it's good to read that the project isn't dead. Speaking about the plot, it makes sense that this "Ganon's Shadow" is actually Yuga who tries to survive the death of his other half (Ganon) but still has his (and Agahnim's) appearance. I also like that Impa takes Sahasrahla's role and that Dark Link is actually Yuga/Ganon who desperately tries to revenge against the Hero (Link). However, I still don't understand what you want to do with Sleeping Zelda, is she actually the Zelda from Zelda 1 or another one like in the NES game? And so, is the prince the brother of what Zelda, the Sleeping one or the original Zelda one? If there is only one Zelda, how do you plan to change that plot? Regardless, the project is very interesting. And yes, this Zelda II Redux hack seems very well done.
Quote from: Els87 on April 09, 2019, 12:26:28 AM
Hi Shade Aurion, it's good to read that the project isn't dead. Speaking about the plot, it makes sense that this "Ganon's Shadow" is actually Yuga who tries to survive the death of his other half (Ganon) but still has his (and Agahnim's) appearance. I also like that Impa takes Sahasrahla's role and that Dark Link is actually Yuga/Ganon who desperately tries to revenge against the Hero (Link). However, I still don't understand what you want to do with Sleeping Zelda, is she actually the Zelda from Zelda 1 or another one like in the NES game? And so, is the prince the brother of what Zelda, the Sleeping one or the original Zelda one? If there is only one Zelda, how do you plan to change that plot? Regardless, the project is very interesting. And yes, this Zelda II Redux hack seems very well done.
I'm pretty sure it's gonna go by the original story/official timeline. The Sleeping Princess is one of the main reasons why Zelda 1 and Zelda 2 even happen. Making her the same Zelda from Zelda 1 wouldn't make sense at this point in time. Her tragedy before the events of Zelda 1 was one of the main reasons why Hyrule in Zelda 1 is in a post apocalyptic state and in decline. The Tragedy of Princess Zelda I is also important because she's the reason why every Zelda after her tragedy was named Zelda including the one in Zelda 1. Yes technically every Zelda game we've played, the incarnation of Zelda in that game was named Zelda but not every princess in the history of hyrule has been confirmed to be named so. If it were retconned to be the Zelda from Zelda 1 then the tradition the brother had set would have never happened and technically Hyrule shouldn't be in decline. Impa knowing the legend of what the king from several centuries would have never been told to Link since her ancestors would know nothing about it and it would also retcon the idea of her being known as ancient Zelda by the time of the Zelda 1 and Zelda 2. Sure not as ancient as SS Zelda but you get what I mean that her tragedy left a big impact on the land. The brother should still be the brother of Sleeping Zelda since this is his fault. In my opinion Zelda 2's story should stay as is, it's one of the best stories in the series and even considered one of the darkest next to Majoras's Mask and Link's Awakening. Plus if you think about it from a era of decline point of view, Hyrule gaining it's original Zelda from more than a century ago, their current Zelda who was saved six years prior to Zelda 2 and the full triforce once again in their possession, that leaves a Second age of an Era of Prosperity/Golden Era with the first one being before the Tragedy of Princess Zelda I. However I do hope there's a way to implement the Master Sword even though according to Hyrule Historia, it had become lost some time after ALBW and TFH.
Although I am bit surprised that Ancient Stone Tablets and BS Zelda are being added into the history of the timeline for this game since neither were canon and both technically ruin the Spirit of Hero lore from the prequel manga of SS and SS itself.
What? The sleeping Zelda in Zelda II is a different Zelda from the one in the first game? This is news to me...
Quote from: llamazing on April 10, 2019, 01:30:18 AM
What? The sleeping Zelda in Zelda II is a different Zelda from the one in the first game? This is news to me...
Yeah in game it's not specifically stated that it's a different Zelda but it is in the manual. Originally Sleeping Zelda was supposed to be the first ever Zelda in the series but that was retconned pretty easily once ALttP was made and as we know now the very original was Skyward Sword Zelda. Here's a brief little summary of The Tragedy of Princess Zelda I based on what Hyrule Historia gave us.
According to a legend passed down within Impa's bloodline, well before the events of The Legend of Zelda, Hyrule was a prosperous land ruled by a king who had a daughter, Princess Zelda, and an elder son, the prince. After the king passed away, the prince sought the pieces of Triforce that he did not inherit, but was unable to find them. A magician close to the king informed the prince that the king had told his sister something about the Triforce. The prince questioned her, but she did not say anything, even after being threatened by an eternal sleep by the magician. In his anger, the magician used a spell to put the princess into an eternal sleep, and died when the spell was completed.
Overcome with grief, the prince sealed his sleeping sister in the North Castle and ordered that all female descendants of the Hylian monarchy are to be named Zelda. While the princesses before this incident were named Zelda in honor of the original Zelda from Skyward Sword, this marked the beginning of Zelda being named so by law, rather than tradition.
To break the curse a hero must possess the complete Triforce, but obtaining the Triforce of Courage would prove difficult as the king of ages ago had hidden it within the Great Palace. Only one who proved themselves worthy would obtain it. In the end, Link obtained the Triforce of Courage and awoke the sleeping princess from her slumber.
Keep in mind this is indicated to happen at least century or more before Zelda 1 takes place which shows how the slowly Hyrule truly declined up until Zelda 1 and Zelda 2 AoL.
According to the official artwork as well, the new king (Sleeping Zelda's elder brother) was even threatening villagers with a whip kids and women alike. One of the reasons Zelda 2 is considered dark is due to this twisted backstory that lead up to it.
Was doing some research awhile back, and it turns out that all of Zelda 1 takes place in the Death Mountain area of ALttP. Although Hyrule Encyclopedia is unreliable and considered non canon, it does make a lot of sense actually since Hyrule is no where to be seen in either Zelda 1 or Zelda 2
I had not seen this before. Given how Zelda 1's map is also supposed to be at the bottom of Zelda 2's map, I'm not sure how this all works together...
Quote
(http://i.imgur.com/bBT1y.jpg)
Quote from: wrightmat on July 03, 2019, 08:25:54 PM
I had not seen this before. Given how Zelda 1's map is also supposed to be at the bottom of Zelda 2's map, I'm not sure how this all works together...
Quote
(http://i.imgur.com/bBT1y.jpg)
It just looks off due to how zoomed out Zelda 2's map is. Realistically Zelda 2's overworld is extremely huge. Possibly on par with Breath of the Wild.
Hi there,
This is obviously my first post. I've lurked around Solarus on and off for a couple of years to see how the various projects are going and finally feel like I am ready to start working on something myself. You could probably say my more recent visits to the Solarus community have been fueled by Nintendo's recent remake of the Link's Awakening on the Switch; which has really made me want to see modernized interpretation of both several of their older Zelda games such as Oracle of Ages and Seasons, but even more so the Original Legend of Zelda and it's sequel The Adventure of Link.
--That brings me to the concept that I've had my head for several years. What I have always wanted to see was an expanded and combined remake of The Original Zelda with it's sequel The Adventure of Link into one large game with modernized graphics (Minish Cap, ALttP, a combination of the two). So I was pleasantly surprised to see this thread and even more pleasantly surprised when I saw everyone pointing out how the map for Z1 is contained in AoL's map --exactly what I wanted to do--
I've just recently started watching the tutorial videos for Solarus on YouTube and importing some of the projects other people have been working on into the Solarus Editor to get an idea of how everything works before trying to recreate the Z1 map in Solaurus (and then building AoL off of it in scale).
My day job is as a Microsoft SharePoint Administrator and VBA Programmer for a law firm. I spend a majority of my time at work automating tasks in MS Excel/Access Visual Basic for Applications and programming Workflows in SharePoint so I am very familiar with the concepts of an object oriented programming language. I've never worked with Lua before but I am hopeful that my experience with VBA and my knowledge in AHK (AutoHotKey) scripting will be helpful in learning Lua for Solarus. I was actually hoping that someone had already crafted the Z1 overworld in Solarus (and swear I thought I saw it recreated with ALttP tilesets somewhere before), but I wasn't able to find any Git's, links, or downloads, anywhere on the forum for that. I though perhaps if someone had already recreated Z1 if I started off with those existing assets if could be a great jumping off point and build off of that. But, with that being said, it probably would be a better learning experience in Solarus to remake Z1's overworld myself from scratch then it would be to use someone elses prebuilt map.
Anyway, sorry @ShadeAurion I was not trying to highjack your AoL thread, but the discussion started to go in the exact direction I would like to take my project and I thought it was relevant. And hey, who knows, maybe you would like some contribution to your project if decide your want to take it in the direction that the others are suggesting combining the two maps.
Welcome to the Solarus community, Shane! Indeed, this was not really the right post to do a presentation of yourself. Anyways, have fun with Solarus! ;)