version differences between ROTH original and ROTH solarus

Started by kukironosuke, December 03, 2015, 07:59:13 PM

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December 03, 2015, 07:59:13 PM Last Edit: December 03, 2015, 08:39:09 PM by kukironosuke
i like some of the updates, but i think quite a few of them detract from the original

1. soundtrack. Is there a reason why you couldn't use the original area themes?
The death music was changed from the links awakening music to the normal death music which is tragic. i also really liked the lake hylia, 4th dungeon, gerudo desert, and master sword themes in the original
I'm going to add in here the sound animations for the hammer was also switched from the OOT megaton hammer sound effect to the ALTTP hammer sound.  I think just because this game is an unofficial sequel to ALTTP doesn't mean everything should adhere to ALTTP theming

2. the blue skeletons at the start of the game. In this remake, these skeletons seem to be one of the few monsters whose AI was changed, instead of running straight at you, they wander aimlessly. When you do kill them the bomb drop rate seems lower than the original game, which is made up by the fact that you can drop 3x stacks or 8x stacks of bombs instead of just 1, but its still possible to kill like 4-10 skeletons and not drop ANY bombs, which paired with the fact that they don't harass you can lead to difficulty finding bombs in the first dungeon(i know you can get them in the grass too, but still)

3. hookshot. In the original the hookshot could not collect items, most importantly not heart pieces, in the remake you can use the hookshot to get heart pieces earlier than before

4. rupee drops, similar to the bombs from skeletons, rupees are way scarcer, i played both versions and in the original i had no points where i had to grind for rupees, in the remake i barely gathered enough rupees in each area to afford the bottles/play the heart piece mini games(with luck, i didnt waste too many rupees). but after that i was very low on rupees, never had enough to buy potions to put in the expensive bottles. in the original i ended the game with 500-550 rupees before the last dungeon, with which i could spend on a few potions

5. grass cutting/jar lifting/bomb placing animations seem to last longer in the remake, not that huge of a deal, but over the course of a playthrough i can see it adding significant time against a speed run, especially with the needing to grind for rupees the grass/jar farming is tedious, in the original the sword cuts through entire fields of grass like butter, and the jar lifting/throwing is instantaneous and never seems to stop your momentum/running speed

6. i can't really place it but the running seems a bit weird in the remake, and there are bugs where sometimes when you are running on land and go into the water, you can't swim fast in the water, which can easily be fixed by going back on land and then back into the water

7. swimming speed in general seems nerfed a lot in the remake, in the original you can swim as fast as you can run, getting from one side of the map to another takes less time in the original with all the obstacles  EDIT i did some tests and the running/swimming seem to be the same, except for swimming diagonally, the remake seems to go a bit slower, which is the difference i think i noticed before the tests, because im often swimming diagonally in lake hylia

I feel like swimming in the 7th ice dungeon is faster in the original, i will have to test that

8. (this may just be me/my computer) but when i full screen the game, there is a tessellation graphical bug where there are lines that seem to flash between the ground tiles, especially in water

9. a few places in the game, namely the 4th dungeon, there are pinpoint spots where you are on a 1 tile ledge and you are meant to look to the right to shoot the hookshot, but looking right brings you too close to the edge and causes you to start the falling animation which doesn't seem avoidable without a few trys and getting lucky

10. key doors require you to press a button to spend a key and open the door, in the original you just walk into a key door and it automatically opens if you have a key, this could be considered a positive change since you can't accidentally waste a key, but really there is no bad doors to spend a key on, and it just wastes time to stop and press a button to open the door every time

11. the octoroks in the 4th dungeon are far too trigger happy, sniping you as soon as you enter the room, the didn't do that in the original

12. in the turtle rock dungeon the fireball shooter statues fire way too quickly, making that 1 room where you have to bait the fireballs to shoot in the corner way harder, and other rooms with many fireball shooters cause lag and flickering(but again that may just be my pc), the original version doesn't have that problem

13. the item selection screen is more cumbersome, you have to select the item instead of just hovering over the item you want then closing the item menu

14. in the original you could stun enemies and then walk through them, In the new game you can't really do that, a key place where this is troublesome is the book of mudora maze where you are trying to push back poes, they launch further in the remake after you swipe at them, but then you just have to deal with them again, in the original when you slice them they move 2 blocks, then you can walk through them and leave them behind

Things i found better in the remake

1. master sword sound effects
2. ice walking in the 7th dungeon, i feel is more precise while walking, the original did have better running on the ice(with skill you could go fast) but in the remake it makes the walking 100% safe if you don't make mistakes. I think you should pair the new style of ice walking with the old style of ice running, if its possible
3. the blacksmith upgrades your items automatically, so you don't miss the glove upgrade just because you didn't think you select the glove before talking to him
~edit~
4. when you hold your sword out in front of you and walk into a piece of grass, the sword stays out, in the original every time a piece of grass gets cut the sword drops and you need to hold the swing button again. I wish you did the same thing with enemies, in both the original and remake when you stab an enemy with your sword while holding the button, your sword drops, when you should be able to hold it infront of you indefinitely until you let go of the button

5. you made more use out of less buttons, for example the C key talks to npcs, tells the text box to hurry up, picks up jars, in the original you needed to use the space and enter key to talk to npcs/hurry text logs up


I'm not trying to rag on the game, I really enjoyed the remake just like the original. I just wanted to share the differences i found in case anything can be done about them to make the re-make closer to the original
I don't think many of these are must have fixes, But i think you should at least increase rupee rates and make blue skeletons act like every other monster in the game again, even red skeletons kept their AI in the remake, i don't understand why blue skeletons were the only monster changed, unless you were purposefully trying to play keep away with the bomb supply in the first dungeon

December 03, 2015, 09:07:56 PM #1 Last Edit: December 03, 2015, 09:40:08 PM by Christopho
Quote from: kukironosuke on December 03, 2015, 07:59:13 PM
i like some of the updates, but i think quite a few of them detract from the original

Thanks for the feedback!

It is true that there are a few differences with the original ROTH. I wanted to respect the original, and only fix what I considered were bugs. Obviously, on some points, deciding whether something is a bug is a matter of taste! :)

Actually, if we had more time, Vincent would even have wanted a lot more changes, including a completely new HUD (a more modern one, similar to the one of Zelda Mystery of Solarus DX).

Quote from: kukironosuke on December 03, 2015, 07:59:13 PM
1. soundtrack. Is there a reason why you couldn't use the original area themes?
The death music was changed from the links awakening music to the normal death music which is tragic. i also really liked the lake hylia, 4th dungeon, gerudo desert, and master sword themes in the original
I'm going to add in here the sound animations for the hammer was also switched from the OOT megaton hammer sound effect to the ALTTP hammer sound.  I think just because this game is an unofficial sequel to ALTTP doesn't mean everything should adhere to ALTTP theming
It is true that the remake only uses original sound tracks from ALTTP. If I had more time, I would have picked more various musics like in the original. OSTs are better than midi, but when you start using them it is hard to have some Zelda OST maps and other maps with midi themes from non-Zelda games. We definitely want to find a better solution in the remakes of OLB and 3T because there are a lot more maps.

All sound animations from the original ROTH were wrong, they were Link's Awakening ones. I talked to Vincent a long time ago about that, he was actually not aware. So I considered that it was a bug and fix it. It is true that it changes the feeling.
I did not notice that there was a Zelda Ocarina of Time sound effect for the hammer.

Quote from: kukironosuke on December 03, 2015, 07:59:13 PM
2. the blue skeletons at the start of the game. In this remake, these skeletons seem to be one of the few monsters whose AI was changed, instead of running straight at you, they wander aimlessly. When you do kill them the bomb drop rate seems lower than the original game, which is made up by the fact that you can drop 3x stacks or 8x stacks of bombs instead of just 1, but its still possible to kill like 4-10 skeletons and not drop ANY bombs, which paired with the fact that they don't harass you can lead to difficulty finding bombs in the first dungeon(i know you can get them in the grass too, but still)
The AI of all monsters was improved. Blue skeletons don't run at you like other monsters do. Actually, I was planning to give more diversity to monsters AI, but with time constraints I ended up with most monsters having the same AI: just running at you (like in the original ROTH, but done better). Blue skeletons are one of the few monsters that differ and I actually regret that I did not make more monsters differ. In the original ROTH, all monsters just run at you the same way, and also collisions were not great: enemies could not traverse each others, preventing the attacked enemy to be pushed back when hit. And the hitbox of enemies with a sword was weird, it was abnormally hard to not get hurt from some directions.

Now about drops. Enemy drops were changed to be more various (in the original ROTH, each enemy has at most 3 different drops), but we tried to keep the overall balance pretty much the same. Most of the time you get bombs before you need them in the first dungeon. But not always, like in the original. Maybe we can tune the rates better.

Quote from: kukironosuke on December 03, 2015, 07:59:13 PM
3. hookshot. In the original the hookshot could not collect items, most importantly not heart pieces, in the remake you can use the hookshot to get heart pieces earlier than before
This is one of the many minor improvements. However I did not intend to make some heart pieces easier to get than before. Don't hesitate to report them here: https://github.com/christopho/zelda_roth_se/issues

Quote from: kukironosuke on December 03, 2015, 07:59:13 PM
4. rupee drops, similar to the bombs from skeletons, rupees are way scarcer, i played both versions and in the original i had no points where i had to grind for rupees, in the remake i barely gathered enough rupees in each area to afford the bottles/play the heart piece mini games(with luck, i didnt waste too many rupees). but after that i was very low on rupees, never had enough to buy potions to put in the expensive bottles. in the original i ended the game with 500-550 rupees before the last dungeon, with which i could spend on a few potions
This is noted, we will fix it in the next release. Money is surprisingly hard to get correctly balanced when you make a game. I had the same problems in Zelda Mystery of Solarus DX.

Quote from: kukironosuke on December 03, 2015, 07:59:13 PM
5. grass cutting/jar lifting/bomb placing animations seem to last longer in the remake, not that huge of a deal, but over the course of a playthrough i can see it adding significant time against a speed run, especially with the needing to grind for rupees the grass/jar farming is tedious, in the original the sword cuts through entire fields of grass like butter, and the jar lifting/throwing is instantaneous and never seems to stop your momentum/running speed
These were bugs to me in the previous games :) Like the missing animation of taking stairs, and the too big speed when walking or running diagonally. The new animations are closer to ALTTP. Players that have not played the original ROTH prefer a gameplay more similar to ALTTP.
If we get rupees better balanced as discussed in 4, I think this should be okay.

Quote from: kukironosuke on December 03, 2015, 07:59:13 PM
6. i can't really place it but the running seems a bit weird in the remake, and there are bugs where sometimes when you are running on land and go into the water, you can't swim fast in the water, which can easily be fixed by going back on land and then back into the water
Running gives exactly the same speed as in the original ROTH. Except diagonally where as I was saying, it was a bug. Yes, I think there are issues when going to/from water while running.

Quote from: kukironosuke on December 03, 2015, 07:59:13 PM
7. swimming speed in general seems nerfed a lot in the remake, in the original you can swim as fast as you can run, getting from one side of the map to another takes less time in the original with all the obstacles
You can swim very fast in water, just press the action command.

Quote from: kukironosuke on December 03, 2015, 07:59:13 PM
8. (this may just be me/my computer) but when i full screen the game, there is a tessellation graphical bug where there are lines that seem to flash between the ground tiles, especially in water
This is a known bug due to SDL2 and I still have no way to avoid it. A workaround is to maximize the window instead of playing fullscreen :/

Quote from: kukironosuke on December 03, 2015, 07:59:13 PM
9. a few places in the game, namely the 4th dungeon, there are pinpoint spots where you are on a 1 tile ledge and you are meant to look to the right to shoot the hookshot, but looking right brings you too close to the edge and causes you to start the falling animation which doesn't seem avoidable without a few trys and getting lucky
You mean the 5th dungeon?

Quote from: kukironosuke on December 03, 2015, 07:59:13 PM
10. key doors require you to press a button to spend a key and open the door, in the original you just walk into a key door and it automatically opens if you have a key, this could be considered a positive change since you can't accidentally waste a key, but really there is no bad doors to spend a key on, and it just wastes time to stop and press a button to open the door every time
Yes, again this is intentional but I agree that it changes the general "fast feeling" of the original.

Quote from: kukironosuke on December 03, 2015, 07:59:13 PM
11. some enemies like the octoroks in the 4th dungeon are far too trigger happy, sniping you as soon as you enter the room, the didn't do that in the original
Yes maybe I should set a longer delay.

Quote from: kukironosuke on December 03, 2015, 07:59:13 PM
12. in the turtle rock dungeon the fireball shooter statues fire way too quickly, making that 1 room where you have to bait the fireballs to shoot in the corner way harder, and other rooms with many fireball shooters cause lag and flickering(but again that may just be my pc), the original version doesn't have that problem
They shoot at the exact same speed as the original. I had to make the platform bigger though, because in the Solarus engine the hero falls in holes earlier. This room is very hard in both games. I tried to increase the delay of fireballs, but it actually makes it even more difficult: when the delay is longer, it is harder to keep in rythm with them!

The lag issue is fixed in the development version (1.5, the next release).

Quote from: kukironosuke on December 03, 2015, 07:59:13 PM
13. the item selection screen is more cumbersome, you have to select the item instead of just hovering over the item you want then closing the item menu
Yes I wondered a long time how to find a good solution. Because I want other menus like the map, the monsters and the commands to also be accessible from the pause mode. This is necessary to play with a joypad without having to remember dozens of buttons. Maybe not absolutely necessary in ROTH, but in 3T there are even more menus like trades and fishes.
I am open to ideas anyway!

Quote from: kukironosuke on December 03, 2015, 07:59:13 PM
14. in the original you could stun enemies and then walk through them, In the new game you can't really do that, a key place where this is troublesome is the book of mudora maze where you are trying to push back poes, they launch further in the remake after you swipe at them, but then you just have to deal with them again, in the original when you slice them they move 2 blocks, then you can walk through them and leave them behind
Haha yes, the Mudora cave is more stressful in the remake :)
If I remember correctly, you cannot use that technique of walking through enemies in Zelda Navi's Quest. So I guess Vincent sees this as an improvement.

Quote from: kukironosuke on December 03, 2015, 07:59:13 PM
Things i found better in the remake

1. master sword sound effects
2. ice walking in the 7th dungeon, i feel is more precise while walking, the original did have better running on the ice(with skill you could go fast) but in the remake it makes the walking 100% safe if you don't make mistakes. I think you should pair the new style of ice walking with the old style of ice running, if its possible
There is still a bug with ice (in the engine). Maybe you did not have the problem, but sometimes I end up with no way to stop at all.
Anyway, walking vs running in Solarus is just a question of setting the speed, it does not change the ice behavior.

Quote from: kukironosuke on December 03, 2015, 07:59:13 PM
3. the blacksmith upgrades your items automatically, so you don't miss the glove upgrade just because you didn't think you select the glove before talking to him
It is funny because to me it is a problem of the remake. In the old game I completely missed the glove update, and it was my fault.
Well, the old game was not great on this point either because you had to assign the glove to the item slot, but use the "talk" key and not the item key to get the upgrade. I made the same mistake in Zelda 3T's trades (driving my let's play watchers completely mad :D)
So I could not find a really better solution, and I did not have time to implement a dedicated item selection menu (like in ALTTP with the fairy) just for that.

Quote from: kukironosuke on December 03, 2015, 07:59:13 PM
4. when you hold your sword out in front of you and walk into a piece of grass, the sword stays out, in the original every time a piece of grass gets cut the sword drops and you need to hold the swing button again. I wish you did the same thing with enemies, in both the original and remake when you stab an enemy with your sword while holding the button, your sword drops, when you should be able to hold it infront of you indefinitely until you let go of the button
Yes, I think we are closer to ALTTP on this. For enemies it will stay that way because fights are too easy otherwise (in old Solarus releases, it was the case).

Quote from: kukironosuke on December 03, 2015, 07:59:13 PM
5. you made more use out of less buttons, for example the C key talks to npcs, tells the text box to hurry up, picks up jars, in the original you needed to use the space and enter key to talk to npcs/hurry text logs up
It was very strange in the old game to start dialogs with Space and stop them with Enter (or was it the opposite?).
Anyway, a goal was to make the game playable with a joypad.

Quote from: kukironosuke on December 03, 2015, 07:59:13 PM
I'm not trying to rag on the game, I really enjoyed the remake just like the original. I just wanted to share the differences i found in case anything can be done about them to make the re-make closer to the original
I don't think many of these are must have fixes, But i think you should at least increase rupee rates and make blue skeletons act like every other monster in the game again, even red skeletons kept their AI in the remake, i don't understand why blue skeletons were the only monster changed, unless you were purposefully trying to play keep away with the bomb supply in the first dungeon
No problems, your remarks are very valuable, I entered some issues from them on the bug tracker!
Since the release did not get a lot of feedback from people that knew the original ROTH game, so thank you for taking the time to report all this!

Quote from: Christopho on December 03, 2015, 09:07:56 PM


It is true that the remake only uses original sound tracks from ALTTP. If I had more time, I would have picked more various musics like in the original. OSTs are better than midi, but when you start using them it is hard to have some Zelda OST maps and other maps with midi themes from non-Zelda games. We definitely want to find a better solution in the remakes of OLB and 3T because there are a lot more maps.

All sound animations from the original ROTH were wrong, they were Link's Awakening ones. I talked to Vincent a long time ago about that, he was actually not aware. So I considered that it was a bug and fix it. It is true that it changes the feeling.
I did not notice that there was a Zelda Ocarina of Time sound effect for the hammer.

I didn't notice they weren't alttp either, a lot of the sound effects from the different 2d zeldas blend together for me, but i can clearly tell when something is from a 3d title/other game. I feel like ROTH was heavily OOT based musically with the hyrule field/zora's domain/goron mountain/gerudo valley/4th dungeon themes, the only theme I can't place is the master sword dungeon theme which i enjoy

Quote from: Christopho on December 03, 2015, 09:07:56 PM
monsters was improved. Blue skeletons don't run at you like other monsters do. Actually, I was planning to give more diversity to monsters AI, but with time constraints I ended up with most monsters having the same AI: just running at you (like in the original ROTH, but done better). Blue skeletons are one of the few monsters that differ and I actually regret that I did not make more monsters differ. In the original ROTH, all monsters just run at you the same way, and also collisions were not great: enemies could not traverse each others, preventing the attacked enemy to be pushed back when hit. And the hitbox of enemies with a sword was weird, it was abnormally hard to not get hurt from some directions.
i wanted to mention this bolded section, but i couldn't describe it acurately, i feel the remake's handling of traversing each other is better than the original where monsters line up behind each other and make it so you can't push them back.
I also appreciate the sword hit box detection change, i didn't notice enough to mention it but i do remember feeling like some sword positioning was cheap in the original

Quote from: Christopho on December 03, 2015, 09:07:56 PM
Now about drops. Enemy drops were changed to be more various (in the original ROTH, each enemy has at most 3 different drops), but we tried to keep the overall balance pretty much the same. Most of the time you get bombs before you need them in the first dungeon. But not always, like in the original. Maybe we can tune the rates better.
I think if i was playing the remake for the first time, i would have found bombs, because i like to cut all the grass/kill all the monsters. but i have noticed other friends in the past avoid monsters if they don't have to kill them, and don't cut grass unless they need to, this was confirmed again watching horikawa's otane's first video yesterday, so i think for players like her and my other friends the drop rates could be tweaked a bit, or somehow force the player to fight the skeletons


Quote from: Christopho on December 03, 2015, 09:07:56 PM
This is one of the many minor improvements. However I did not intend to make some heart pieces easier to get than before. Don't hesitate to report them here: https://github.com/christopho/zelda_roth_se/issues
i just went back and checked, and the one heart piece in particular i was surprised i could get early actually only gets you the heart piece a minute or two early. when you first enter death mountain with the hookshot you go north, then east, and if you go north again you can see a heart piece on the left side of the screen, you can get this heart piece with the hookshot in the remake, i thought the other side was trapped by dark blocks but aparently you can get to it just by walking east of the 3rd(lamp) dungeon area

so yeah, hookshot collecting heart pieces is ok



Quote from: Christopho on December 03, 2015, 09:07:56 PM
Quote from: kukironosuke on December 03, 2015, 07:59:13 PM
5. grass cutting/jar lifting/bomb placing animations
These were bugs to me in the previous games :) Like the missing animation of taking stairs, and the too big speed when walking or running diagonally. The new animations are closer to ALTTP. Players that have not played the original ROTH prefer a gameplay more similar to ALTTP.
If we get rupees better balanced as discussed in 4, I think this should be okay.
there is also the missing animation of the hookshot, in the original you like instant transmision across gaps when you use the hookshot. I thought it was a bit weird/silly when i first played roth 3-4 years ago, but i didn't think it was a bug. maybe i'm just too used to the old roth style that i am biased on how roth should play. adding the annimations back in is alright, but i think it really messes with speed running, so maybe you want to extend the speed run challenges because i found it difficult to do the OLB/3T speed runs in the originals and if they keep the longer animations i think it may be impossible, for me at least.  I think you could take a survey of peoples fastest times to figure out a good balance

Quote from: Christopho on December 03, 2015, 09:07:56 PM
Quote from: kukironosuke on December 03, 2015, 07:59:13 PM
6. i can't really place it but the running seems a bit weird in the remake, and there are bugs where sometimes when you are running on land and go into the water, you can't swim fast in the water, which can easily be fixed by going back on land and then back into the water
Running gives exactly the same speed as in the original ROTH. Except diagonally where as I was saying, it was a bug. Yes, I think there are issues when going to/from water while running.
i edited my original post after doing some tests, the running/swimming is the same except for diagonal, i prefer the fast diagonal speeds just like every other "fast" version of the game, but again i realize this is not very attune to what people expect from a "zelda game" so im fine with slowing things down, just look into the time trials

Quote from: Christopho on December 03, 2015, 09:07:56 PM
Quote from: kukironosuke on December 03, 2015, 07:59:13 PM
7. swimming speed in general
You can swim very fast in water, just press the action command.
again i think i was influenced by the diagonal speed of swimming



Quote from: Christopho on December 03, 2015, 09:07:56 PM
Quote from: kukironosuke on December 03, 2015, 07:59:13 PM
9. a few places in the game, namely the 4th dungeon, there are pinpoint spots where you are on a 1 tile ledge and you are meant to look to the right to shoot the hookshot, but looking right brings you too close to the edge and causes you to start the falling animation which doesn't seem avoidable without a few trys and getting lucky
You mean the 5th dungeon?
i mean the lamp dungeon
floor 1f, 1 room below the far top left room with an up arrow in it

there are some bats in this room and some hookshot jumps you need to make, in the original the fences you hookshot to are never on the same row as one another, in the remake they are on the same row and in order to hookshot across you need to stand on the edge and look right, i just tried it again with better success, but still you have to tap the right key for exactly as short as possible, if you hold it for half a second you will fall in the void

Quote from: Christopho on December 03, 2015, 09:07:56 PM
Quote from: kukironosuke on December 03, 2015, 07:59:13 PM
10. key doors
Yes, again this is intentional but I agree that it changes the general "fast feeling" of the original.
understandable


Quote from: Christopho on December 03, 2015, 09:07:56 PM
Quote from: kukironosuke on December 03, 2015, 07:59:13 PM
12. in the turtle rock dungeon the fireball shooter statues fire way too quickly,
They shoot at the exact same speed as the original. I had to make the platform bigger though, because in the Solarus engine the hero falls in holes earlier. This room is very hard in both games. I tried to increase the delay of fireballs, but it actually makes it even more difficult: when the delay is longer, it is harder to keep in rythm with them!

The lag issue is fixed in the development version (1.5, the next release).
When i played both versions today i had significantly easier time in the original. the fireballs may be firing the same speed but it still feels different to me for some reason idk. I admit this fire dungeon is difficult in both versions, the fire wand dungeon is the sole reason i can't do the no death/low defense run

Quote from: Christopho on December 03, 2015, 09:07:56 PM
Quote from: kukironosuke on December 03, 2015, 07:59:13 PM
13. the item selection screen is more cumbersome, you have to select the item instead of just hovering over the item you want then closing the item menu
Yes I wondered a long time how to find a good solution. Because I want other menus like the map, the monsters and the commands to also be accessible from the pause mode. This is necessary to play with a joypad without having to remember dozens of buttons. Maybe not absolutely necessary in ROTH, but in 3T there are even more menus like trades and fishes.
I am open to ideas anyway!
this reminds me, i tried to play the re-make with a controller and i had problems with dirrections sticking, if i pressed both right and up at the same time on my controller, then let go of both, link would keep walking in the last direction button i helds direction.  I ended up playing the re-make with the keyboard because im used to playing roth with keyboard

i personally found it annoying that the bestiary menu was inside the pause menu, because when i pressed the M key to open the monster bestiary, then i pressed the right button, i ended up in another menu. This is my fault though being a player of the original my muscle memory tells me to press right to cycle through the different pages of the bestiary, instead of down like in the remake

i agree with the menus all being on the pause menu especially for the future games, so its also good for the first game, i just need to re-learn it


Quote from: Christopho on December 03, 2015, 09:07:56 PM
Quote from: kukironosuke on December 03, 2015, 07:59:13 PM
14. in the original you could stun enemies and then walk through them,
Haha yes, the Mudora cave is more stressful in the remake :)
If I remember correctly, you cannot use that technique of walking through enemies in Zelda Navi's Quest. So I guess Vincent sees this as an improvement.

This is alright with me, just something i noticed, i thought the walking through enemies was a bit abusive myself when i first learned it, but then i got used to using it. It just brings back bad memories of failing perfect no death runs because of those stupid poes and that stupid platform maze, but i suppose you should earn it really

Quote from: Christopho on December 03, 2015, 09:07:56 PM
Quote from: kukironosuke on December 03, 2015, 07:59:13 PM
Things i found better in the remake

2. ice walking in the 7th dungeon
There is still a bug with ice (in the engine). Maybe you did not have the problem, but sometimes I end up with no way to stop at all.
Anyway, walking vs running in Solarus is just a question of setting the speed, it does not change the ice behavior.

i just kept tapping the direction i wanted to go in small increments, and i had a steady reliable distance every time i tapped the key, if i moved more than 1 tile at a time then i would slide extra squares, in the original it felt like whether i tapped the key or held the key there was a random amount of sliding after the fact either way, but while running you could like drift/control the sliding in a way, in the re-make once you start sliding you can't stop

also in the originals you could like stand on basically the very edge of a platform, even standing mostly off the platform, and you wouldn't start the slipping into the void animation until you walked completely off the path. this is excuseable in this game, but the ice tower in 3t is insane and i could barely pass it in the original with the generous leniency in border walking, i feel like with the re-makes ice path physics the ice tower in 3T will be impossible

Quote from: Christopho on December 03, 2015, 09:07:56 PM
Quote from: kukironosuke on December 03, 2015, 07:59:13 PM
3. the blacksmith upgrades your items automatically, so you don't miss the glove upgrade just because you didn't think you select the glove before talking to him
It is funny because to me it is a problem of the remake. In the old game I completely missed the glove update, and it was my fault.
Well, the old game was not great on this point either because you had to assign the glove to the item slot, but use the "talk" key and not the item key to get the upgrade. I made the same mistake in Zelda 3T's trades (driving my let's play watchers completely mad :D)
So I could not find a really better solution, and I did not have time to implement a dedicated item selection menu (like in ALTTP with the fairy) just for that.

I actually had the same feeling playing the original for the first time, i completely missed the glove upgrade for a while and i was so confused on how to get it, i had to run all over the map several times before i went to the roth forums and read a spoiler on how to upgrade the gloves. I felt like this was my fault for not figuring it out, and i liked the old system. the reason why i put this in the "improvement" pile is because i feel like most players wouldn't appreciate such a mystery, i think many players would miss the gloves and feel like the game was cheap to make you go out of your way to select the item you want to enchant without explaining it to you


Quote from: Christopho on December 03, 2015, 09:07:56 PM
Quote from: kukironosuke on December 03, 2015, 07:59:13 PM
4. when you hold your sword out in front of you
Yes, I think we are closer to ALTTP on this. For enemies it will stay that way because fights are too easy otherwise (in old Solarus releases, it was the case).

but i want easy fights :(, nah this is understandable i guess, it just feels so.... weird for me that the sword disapears, i feel like in the real zelda games you can keep the sword out and stab multiple times in a row, so in this fan game it feels off when it doesn't work that way


Quote from: Christopho on December 03, 2015, 09:07:56 PM
Quote from: kukironosuke on December 03, 2015, 07:59:13 PM
5. you made more use out of less buttons,
It was very strange in the old game to start dialogs with Space and stop them with Enter (or was it the opposite?).
Anyway, a goal was to make the game playable with a joypad.

i just remembered one issue i have with your games load up. when you start the game you need to press enter twice to pass the title screens, then when you get to the character select you need to press the space bar twice to select your character, then when you want to quit the game you press the escape key and then the c(action) button to confirm

in the original you press enter 4 times while loading the game and you skip right past the title screens, and chose your character file(maybe you changed this so you don't accidentally choose the wrong character file)
but also in the original when you press the escape key to end your game, you press the enter key again to choose continue/save and quit/ or quit without saving, so the enter button is the "advance" button for all of the main menu screens/quitting screen, and in the remake you need the enter button and the space button to start the game, and the c button to quit the game



Hi! About the SDL2 bug, do you think that it could be avoided using some "trivial filter" as a workaround?
"If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you. But if you really make them think, they'll hate you."

oh i forgot, the aganihm fight in the 4th temple was very slow i think, his lightning attack is much quicker in the original, in both versions of the fight this boss can be deadly before you figure out his timing, I think the faster lightning in the original is better because in the remake the fight is boring once you know the pattern, and it takes forever

Quote from: kukironosuke on December 03, 2015, 10:36:13 PM
i just remembered one issue i have with your games load up. when you start the game you need to press enter twice to pass the title screens, then when you get to the character select you need to press the space bar twice to select your character, then when you want to quit the game you press the escape key and then the c(action) button to confirm

in the original you press enter 4 times while loading the game and you skip right past the title screens, and chose your character file(maybe you changed this so you don't accidentally choose the wrong character file)
but also in the original when you press the escape key to end your game, you press the enter key again to choose continue/save and quit/ or quit without saving, so the enter button is the "advance" button for all of the main menu screens/quitting screen, and in the remake you need the enter button and the space button to start the game, and the c button to quit the game
In the remake, C and enter are useless in these menus. You can simply only use Space.

Quote from: Diarandor on December 03, 2015, 10:43:51 PM
Hi! About the SDL2 bug, do you think that it could be avoided using some "trivial filter" as a workaround?
I don't think so. It has to do with non-integer coordinates when the window is scaled to fullscreen with letterboxing.